How No-fly Zones Work

They have become such a ubiquitous tool used by the UN and NATO to intervene in international crises, that it seems like no-fly zones have been around forever. But it was only the 1990s that the first one was enacted and they've only be used twice more since then. Learn about this peculiar military tool with Chuck and Josh.

Female Speaker: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from

Josh Clark: Hey and welcome to the podcast. I am Josh Clark and there is Charles W. Chuck Bryant mad as heck and he's not going to take it anymore.

Chuck Bryant: I don't think I said heck.

Josh Clark: I revised a classic movie quote into heck.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah Network, man have you seen that recently?

Josh Clark: No I've never seen it. It was on Netflix streaming and I had it in my instant cue and passed it up to watch.

Chuck Bryant: Well you should watch it again because you'll watch it now and go, "Man when was this made?" it's so far ahead of its time as far as how things are in the media.

Josh Clark: Like a coma.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah but when you watched Network back then people said things like, "How ridiculous, stuff like this could never happen."

Josh Clark: Oh I see it's prescient.

Chuck Bryant: Very much so.

Josh Clark: I'll have to watch it then.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah it's a good one.

Josh Clark: Is it - what is that that Aaron Sorkin show?

Chuck Bryant: I don't like Aaron Sorkin.

Josh Clark: News Hour?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah that show stinks.

Josh Clark: Is that what it's called? News Hour? Newsroom?

Chuck Bryant: Newsroom. I didn't care for it other than the fact that it stars or guest stars Mr. Paul Schneider who is one of my boys.

Josh Clark: So sometimes people accuse that show of being preachy what do you think?

Chuck Bryant: I just - I'm not a Sorkin guy he is a little wordy for me.

Josh Clark: I liked West Wing.

Chuck Bryant: I didn't watch it.

Josh Clark: You never watched West Wing?

Chuck Bryant: Not one episode.

Josh Clark: Guarantee you, you would like it.

Chuck Bryant: You think?

Josh Clark: It was - he - I hate to say this but it was like his masterpiece from beginning to - I'm not kidding Chuck. I am telling you this as somebody who didn't like Studio 60, who doesn't like Newsroom. West Wing from beginning to end was just really great.

Chuck Bryant: I'll try it but I swear the way that guy writes I'm always like, "Nobody talks like that."

Josh Clark: I'm with you, I'm totally with you but this cast of characters, the characters that he wrote, the actors, they pulled it off. I've never seen -

Chuck Bryant: I'll give it a shot.

Josh Clark: Do.

Chuck Bryant: Paul Schneider is not on it.

Josh Clark: I'm coming to your house this afternoon and we're going to watch some. So I guess that is the segue for no fly zones.

Chuck Bryant: Not a bad set up because this is political and presidential.

Josh Clark: I have something, actually I have a bit of an intro.

Chuck Bryant: Okay well let's hear it.

Josh Clark: You've heard of the Wright Brothers, Dayton's pride, Orville and Wilbur Wright.

Chuck Bryant: Oh yeah conjoined twins?

Josh Clark: Yes.

Chuck Bryant: No they weren't.

Josh Clark: I know. But they did fly. They did build the first airplane that flew. And they flew it out at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina and after they had that flight - actually I think before they undertook that flight while they were still in the development stage they went to the United States government and said, "Hey war department, you want in on this action?" Not once, not twice, but thrice the war department turned the Wright Brothers down.

Chuck Bryant: What good are planes in warfare?

Josh Clark: Exactly. Luckily there was a very smart person heading the post office department who said, "Okay maybe you shouldn't drop bricks out of airplanes onto people's heads but we could use this to deliver the mail."

Chuck Bryant: Martin Van Ostren?

Josh Clark: Right. To heck with the auto gyro we're going to start using these Wright Brother's plane to deliver mail and for three years the only aircraft that were in service under the United States government was for delivering mail.

Chuck Bryant: And as a pilot accidentally dropped a mail bomb and they went, "Wow that is a good idea."

Josh Clark: That works very well. Yeah it didn't take very long for the war department to be like, "Oh okay maybe we should use this" and then by 1914 the aviation section of the Signal Core was set up and all of a sudden planes were militarized. Within just years of their invention they were being used to murder people.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah and this article points out in 1937 Spanish fascists dropped a bunch of bombs on the town of Guernica, 100,000 pounds of explosives killed 1,600 people.

Josh Clark: Yeah and not only was it the explosives, people were running out of town and they were gunning them down.

Chuck Bryant: Really?

Josh Clark: Civilians, yeah. That's what fascists do.

Chuck Bryant: As outrageous and horrible as that is it was definitely the beginning of what would be a long romance in warfare with the plane.

Josh Clark: Yeah you had the Red Baron, Eddie Rickenbacker. There is a very long, bloody history associated with planes and war. When the fascists in Spain used planes to take out a lot of civilians the world was appropriately disgusted. There wasn't a whole lot that could be done. It actually wasn't until the very early 1990s that people figured out a way to use planes to thwart planes from being used against civilian populations by their own government.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah I thought no fly zones had been around long before that so this was very eye opening. I had no idea that it was in the 1990s that they first did this.

Josh Clark: Right, no fly zones are new. They've only been used three times.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah I didn't know that either.

Josh Clark: Like it just seems like it's something that they just commonly do but it is kind of a big deal to issue a no fly zone and the reason why is because what you're doing is intervening in a sovereign nation undermining the power of the ruler of that nation.

Chuck Bryant: Choosing sides.

Josh Clark: In a way you're saying at the very least "I'm not going to let you just slaughter these civilians. I'm not going to cast my lot one way or the other really but I am going to protect these civilians." And it takes a United Nations mandate to even get started.

Chuck Bryant: That's right.

Josh Clark: So you want to talk about the first one?

Chuck Bryant: Yes. Let's harken back to the spring of 1991, I am in college drinking a lot of beer. That is where I first discovered beer.

Josh Clark: I was drinking a lot of beer too and I wasn't in college.

Chuck Bryant: Well we won't talk about that.

Josh Clark: I'm just kidding I was drinking beer.

Chuck Bryant: So 1991 I remember sitting around and watching like this stuff on CNN for the first time like being interested in politics really for the first time.

Josh Clark: Oh yeah?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah that's kind of when I got into stuff like that.

Josh Clark: Well that was the first war that was really televised. I mean Vietnam was but this was the first one that had 24 hour coverage was the First Gulf War and it was spectacular to watch.

Chuck Bryant: It was pretty enthralling especially when you're 20-years-old and you're sitting around with your friends drinking beer safe in Athens Georgia. So what happened there was a guy named Saddam Hussein he was not doing very nice things to the people in Kuwait.

Josh Clark: Well put.

Chuck Bryant: And the Kurdish minority in Northern Iraq was encouraged by American radio broadcasts to revolt like take a stand and so they did. And Saddam Hussein sent gun ships with napalm and chemical weapons and helicopters.

Josh Clark: Because that is what you do.

Chuck Bryant: That is what he does.

Josh Clark: When you have a civilian population that's unhappy with your rule.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah and so they flew basically. Hundreds of thousands of them, Kurdish civilians fled and sort of got wedged there at the Turkish border.

Josh Clark: Yeah because the Turks were like, "Yeah we feel for you but stay there don't cross over here."

Chuck Bryant: Yeah so they didn't have food and water and H.W. Bush - President George H.W. Bush and the allies in Europe said, "You know what I don't know what to do here because we kind of encouraged those people to do this and now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place but we really don't think we should invade and remove Saddam Hussein with all of our might."

Josh Clark: Yeah let's give it another ten or twelve years.

Chuck Bryant: Exactly. Or we could go to the UN in '91 and saying, "Hey how about passing a resolution against this guy" which they did.

Josh Clark: Which they did, they said, "Okay we're going to deliver humanitarian aid to these Kurds that are trapped along the Turkish border and Hussein if you do anything to interfere we're going to bomb you. We're going to take on your guys that you send to interfere at the very least. And not only that we're establishing a safe zone for these people, it's above the 36th parallel and if you send any planes over there we're going to take them on." So this is what we're going to call a no fly zone and it was the first one.

Chuck Bryant: And Saddam Hussein went, "No fly zone I've never heard of such a thing" and the UN said, "That's because it is brand new jerk."

Josh Clark: Right and he was like, "Oh I am the first one."

Chuck Bryant: He went, "First. Firsties." So they did this and then in 1992 a second no fly zone south of the 32nd parallel was established to protect the Shiite Muslims -

Josh Clark: Who also rose up under the encouragement of the United States. If you're interested in this kind of thing check out Three Kings, it was a lot to do about that. It was after the uprisings had started and also after the time that United States didn't come support them.

Chuck Bryant: Remember the one scene when the guy made Marky Mark drink the oil?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: That was hardcore man.

Josh Clark: I thought it was a little ham fisted of David O. Russell.

Chuck Bryant: You think? But you don't like that guy you have problems with him.

Josh Clark: No I liked Three Kings a lot. What else has he done that I've seen?

Chuck Bryant: Silver Linings Playbook you didn't like.

Josh Clark: I thought it was okay.

Chuck Bryant: See you don't love him

Josh Clark: But I like Three Kings a lot. I thought that was a good movie.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah me too.

Josh Clark: So no fly zone is going on. Saddam Hussein violates said no fly zone. He is like, "Yeah well what is going to happen let me send some jets up there" and we responded by - or the coalition I should say responded by shooting down these aircrafts or destroying just military targets on the ground because that is, as we found out, one of the parts of a no fly zone to be effective is to also bomb radar equipment and stuff on the ground.

Chuck Bryant: Right, that can get jets up in the air and guide them.

Josh Clark: Yeah disable their force.

Chuck Bryant: And can also find your jets so you want to disable their force like you said but you also want to protect your own force. The thing was this was very new. The UN was a little squeamish at the idea of undermining, again, a sovereign ruler, a jerk everyone agreed but still a sovereign ruler and kind of one of the stabilizing forces of the Middle East whether the US liked it or not. So they just kind of said, "Yeah protect these people but just really you got to take it all on a case-by-case basis. You can't be the least aggressive, you have to be completely reactive and maybe then we should kind of chase them out of the no fly zone rather than shoot them down."

Over time, after [inaudible] they started just by attrition wearing down Hussein's defenses and his Air Force. Just because he kept sending them in and we kept shooting them down.

Josh Clark: Until 2003 when we went in full force and took down Saddam Hussein.

Chuck Bryant: Right the northern part and the southern part of Iraq was off limits to Saddam Hussein for 12 years, his own country. There was a wide swath in the middle that he could move around in but anything else he wasn't allowed.

Josh Clark: Okay so that is the first use of the no fly zone ever. In the early 1990s when Yugoslavia broke up NATO forces said, "All right how about another no fly zone. We're going to authorize this one, it is 1993, over the breakaway region of Bosnia and Herzegovina." It was called Operation Deny Flight.

Chuck Bryant: Which is terrible.

Josh Clark: A little on the nose if you want to talk about on the nose. David O Russell named said mission and it was going to block Bosnian Serbs who controlled all the military aircraft in that region.

Chuck Bryant: Right and who were using it against all their neighbors that they were going to war against specifically the Muslims, Serbian Muslims right.

Josh Clark: Yeah in a big way.

Chuck Bryant: So I guess NATO undertook that no fly zone.

Josh Clark: Yeah that was number two.

Chuck Bryant: And that was a little more aggressive I believe. They went after - they learned from the - I guess about eight years of the Iraqi no fly zone that you really have to go after military installations and anything that can be used to violate the no fly zone and maybe even go a little step further as punishment. Like not only is - are we going to shoot down your plane we're going to maybe blow up your base.

Josh Clark: And pants you.

Chuck Bryant: Right.

Josh Clark: In front of everyone.

Chuck Bryant: Right. So that was the second no fly zone.

Josh Clark: Yeah the third was even more aggressive against Gadhafi just a couple years ago in 2011.

Chuck Bryant: That's right and it lasted about six months I believe.

Josh Clark: Oh yeah?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah it was extremely effective I believe.

Josh Clark: Yeah well that is because they authorized, "All necessary measures" to protect the Libyan civilians and that meant a lot of bombs being dropped; a lot of cruise missiles taking out bases on land.

Chuck Bryant: This one was named by ANG Li it was called Operation Odyssey Dawn. It was the result of a UN Security Council Resolution 1973 which is confusing because it was carried out in 2011. But basically it said, "You guys we think Gadhafi is totally nutso and he is going to kill a lot of his own people. Go in there and declare all of Libya a no fly zone" and NATO said, "Okay let's do it." So US and British led NATO coalition kind of took the reins and took this 680,000 square mile country, which is about 1.7 million square kilometers into a no fly zone. All of Libya was a no fly zone.

Josh Clark: All right since this is a new thing there is no, as this article says, playbook. There is not an exact way that these go into effect. It sort of depends on what you're dealing with, what countries you're dealing with. But the first thing you have to do, according to Chapter 7, article 42 of the UN Charter is get the 15 member UN Security Council on board.

Chuck Bryant: Right which sounds easy but it's not necessarily because you have five permanent members, the UK, France, the US, China, and Russia. And China and Russia love to veto anything that the US, the UK, and France are all about which is good, it's called a balance of power. But specifically with Libya, Russia and China were against it but they were persuaded to abstain from the vote. Because all it takes is one permanent member nation on the Security Council to veto and it's done.

Josh Clark: Yeah I wonder what the persuasion entailed.

Chuck Bryant: I don't know. Looking the other way on human rights violations maybe?

Josh Clark: I have no idea but I'm sure it wasn't just as easy as, "Hey you mind sitting this one out?" "Sure no problem."

Chuck Bryant: I'm drunk anyway.

Josh Clark: So the UN resolution for the Libyan no fly zone it's a pretty good example of how this kind of thing can work. So no flights in Libyan airspace bans all flying unless it is a humanitarian mission carrying food or water or getting out foreign nationals who are in bad places. You're allowed to do that other than that no fly.

Chuck Bryant: No fly and it's not - you don't just shoot down any plane on sight. When you're patrolling the no fly zone if a plane is flying in Libyan airspace you want to first figure out if it was there accidentally or if it's hostile. And if it's hostile you go back to the ground and say, "Hey man can I shoot this thing down?"

Josh Clark: Yeah well first you have to figure out who is doing the shooting. You have to set it all up.

Chuck Bryant: Oh well yeah, of course.

Josh Clark: Like who is going to be enforcing all this?

Chuck Bryant: I was just jumping ahead a little.

Josh Clark: Yeah you have got to figure out who is in charge of the operation basically. In the case of Libya it was NATO. And then you establish the rules of engagement which partially has to do with, do we shoot first and ask questions later? Do we check passports? How is this going to work?

Chuck Bryant: Right and like you said in Libya it was pretty aggressive. The first thing that happened on day one was the US and I believe the UK sailed warships off the coast of Libya and started shooting missiles into Libya's interior knocking down military installations, radar installations, as much of the Libyan military or at least air force as could be destroyed.

Josh Clark: 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles, boom.

Chuck Bryant: Each one precisely shot.

Josh Clark: And I love the article that says, "The goal was to shape the battle space."

Chuck Bryant: That's a euphemism huh?

Josh Clark: Yeah big time. So after this they send in the drone surveillance aircraft to check things out, see what is going on.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah and did you get the impression the US was kind of showing off a little bit, like, "We've got some missiles we can use and the afterwards we'll send in our unmanned drones and make sure everything is bombed."

Josh Clark: And then after that we're going to send in radar jamming equipment just in case you have anything left on the ground, we'll take care of that too.

Chuck Bryant: That was the first two days.

Josh Clark: And Gadhafi, his air force, was - they called them vintage jets in this article and in that case vintage is not a good things. It's from the 1960s it's old gear basically.

Chuck Bryant: It's vintage not retro.

Josh Clark: That's right.

Chuck Bryant: So it's still - it was effective. It worked. Even beyond the fact that the jets were vintage and we crippled his radar system, his air force, military installations, there was still a lot of shoulder launched rockets in Libya. An estimated 600 to 1,500 I believe that during this time Gadhafi was handing out to people who were on his side.

Josh Clark: And Saddam Hussein famously offered a bounty on any aircraft shot down of like 14 grand which I thought why not 15?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah it was a weird number. I wonder if that makes a significant round number in Iraqi money.

Josh Clark: Oh yeah maybe so. Huh, that's a lot of dinari.

Chuck Bryant: Yes thank you.

Josh Clark: You shouldn't invest in those by the way. That is a big scam.

Chuck Bryant: Invest in dinari?

Josh Clark: Yeah have you heard of people doing that?

Chuck Bryant: No.

Josh Clark: It's a thing where people buy up Iraqi dinari thinking they're going to hit it big one day. You shouldn't do that.

Chuck Bryant: Why?

Josh Clark: Well you just do a little research and it's sort of one of those scams.

Chuck Bryant: Is it.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: So if you bought dinari from a legitimate currency broker it's still not a good investment.

Josh Clark: No. I know someone who did it.

Chuck Bryant: Oh no. Is it possible it's going to come back in ten years?

Josh Clark: Doubt it.

Chuck Bryant: Are they going to go Euro?

Josh Clark: I don't know. But yeah, that's just a side bar.

Chuck Bryant: Okay that was a nice one.

Josh Clark: Save your money folks.

Chuck Bryant: So we were talking about the possibility that a NATO jet or any jet patrolling a no fly zone could get shot down by some dude on the ground.

Josh Clark: Yeah it hasn't happened.

Chuck Bryant: No but it could.

Josh Clark: It would have to be one lucky shot.

Chuck Bryant: It raises one of the concerns. Actually it has happened. It hasn't happened from somebody on the ground. But it raises a concern, a risk that we're sending in people, again, into a sovereign nation that maybe has to deal with its own problems and we're putting our people in danger for that. Most people I think, myself included, side on the idea of going in and protecting civilians from certain slaughter. But I do agree there is a risk as well. And Scott McGrady, remember him?

Josh Clark: Oh yeah, Owen Wilson.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, during the Balkan War, during that no fly zone he was shot down I guess by a Serbian plane?

Josh Clark: It was a service to air missile.

Chuck Bryant: Oh okay so somebody has shot down somebody from the ground.

Josh Clark: Well I don't know if it was a person.

Chuck Bryant: Okay. Well he was shot down patrolling a no fly zone and he was in very big trouble for a little while. Had he not been quite the survivalist who knows what would have happened because the Serbs were hot on his trail. And he spent six days evading them.

Josh Clark: Yeah he did a really good job and emerged a hero.

Chuck Bryant: He ate ants.

Josh Clark: Yeah he ate ants and lived on collected rain water and avoided the bad guys and eventually got through a radio signal that got picked up.

Chuck Bryant: To Gene Hackman

Josh Clark: Yeah Gene Hackman was like, "We're going to get you out of there." Uncommon Valor. Is that what you're referencing?

Chuck Bryant: No Gene Hackman was in the Owen Wilson movie too.

Josh Clark: Oh was he really?

Chuck Bryant: I am pretty sure he was the one in charge of saving him.

Josh Clark: Oh man well he is always going in and saving and in Uncommon Valor it was his son that was a Vietnam POW right?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: God that was good. Randall [inaudible] Cobb.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah what was his name in it?

Josh Clark: I don't remember. That movie came out at a great time for me. It came at a perfect age.

Chuck Bryant: He wore like a live grenade around his neck, remember?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: That's the second time we talked about Uncommon Valor in like two months.

Josh Clark: When was the other one?

Chuck Bryant: I don't remember.

Josh Clark: I do remember talking about it.

Chuck Bryant: Probably what happens if the earth stops spinning.

Josh Clark: Yeah probably so. So you got anything else? I guess we had the opportunity to really invade Libya and President Obama said, "You know what. Let's not do that. Let's not do the regime change game."

Chuck Bryant: Well a lot of people are like, "We shouldn't be there in the first place." A lot of other people were like, "This is a half measure. If you're going to go do that and just wipe out somebody's military you might as well do a ground invasion and take over and topple the regime." Like you said, Obama was like, "Nah let's give it a shot" and he was proven right in Libya at least.

Josh Clark: Yeah because even if you take out their air defenses and their air offenses I guess they still have way better weaponry and stuff on the ground than these uprising forces do.

Chuck Bryant: Right. And it worked in Libya. It didn't necessarily work in the Balkans. A lot of people point to the slaughter at Srebrenica.

Josh Clark: Oh yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah 7,000 Muslim boys and men were killed by the Bosnians.

Josh Clark: It's genocide.

Chuck Bryant: Who are being tried of war crimes because of it but the no fly zone didn't do anything to prevent it. So is it effective? It can be.

Josh Clark: I say we don't have a large enough body of work to study from here.

Chuck Bryant: We need to get some more going.

Josh Clark: Get some more no fly zones?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. I remember how creepy it was after 9/11 when all the planes were shut down?

Josh Clark: Oh yeah.

Chuck Bryant: It was so odd because you don't realize how used to the sounds and the contrails.

Josh Clark: Contrail. We did an episode on that didn't we?

Chuck Bryant: On contrails.

Josh Clark: We debunked contrails.

Chuck Bryant: Okay I guess that is about it right?

Josh Clark: If you want to learn about no fly zones, you can type no fly zone into the search bar of and before we get to listener mail let's do a word from our sponsor.

Chuck Bryant: Josh when you and I, Jerry, and Casey our video guy and Joe, our web guy, when we get together it is a borderline party not so much a meeting.

Josh Clark: Right. Well yes but when we finally do get down to brass tax and get working we get stuff done when we're in the same room when we can see each other and interact. But we're not always together all the time. It's not like we live together. Sometimes we're separate but we still need to meet. So when that happens we use Go To Meeting.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah with HDFaces and those faces are ours and high definition is pretty great way to operate. With Go To Meeting you share the same screen, we're on the same page. You can share documents with each other and you can like edit my documents if I give you permission to.

Josh Clark: I know.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah and we've been down that road. It's really simple, you just click on it and you fire up the webcam. You can even do it from your phone or your iPhone and tablet. It's really pretty great and we actually went through a Go To Meeting with the folks there and it was super helpful I have to admit.

Josh Clark: Everyone, your attention please. We have a special offer for you. Try Go To Meeting free for 30 days. Don't wait, get this special offer. Visit click the try it free button and use the promo code stuff, s-t-u-f-f. Remember to use the promo code s-t-u-f-f at

Chuck Bryant: All right listener mail time?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Okay Josh I am going to call this pushy kid gets his way which I try not to do but -

Josh Clark: Everybody loves it when pushy kids get their way.

Chuck Bryant: This is a shout out for a teacher. This is Jack and Jack and I have been emailing each other and he says, "By the way I think I told you in the past about my civics teacher who listens to the show. This week we had a special project in his class is to make a podcast about one of these Supreme Court cases we have been studying. For some hints we listened to tidbits of your show and my teacher and I just grin from ear-to-ear at each other like a really funny inside joke" because they're like the only two in the class that listen.

"I plan for my pseudo name to be Chuck or even Chuckers if you would allow." I give you permission sir. He says he sees himself s a younger version of me.

Josh Clark: That's nice.

Chuck Bryant: "Although the actual content of this show is more like This American Life because we are required to have call ins." [Inaudible] call ins do they?

Josh Clark: I don't know.

Chuck Bryant: [Inaudible].

Josh Clark: I don't think so either.

Chuck Bryant: "I will always think to myself that I am sitting there in your little studio. If you can give my spectacular teacher Mr. Christoph a shout out that would be mind boggling, stupendously incredible, but I understand if you can't."

Josh Clark: Mr. Christoph?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah Mr. Christoph a civics teacher. And I said, "Sure Jack I will do that." And then he emailed again from Washington DC and said, "I hate to seem demanding Chuck but if you could also mention Mrs. Christoph because I have her for math and I don't want to make her feel left out. So if it's too late I get it, I can't complain, this might be the best day of my life after all. Have a nice weekend." And that is Jack from Washington DC and Mr. and Mrs. Christoph good job listening to the show and we thank you for using it in your classroom.

Josh Clark: Yes thank you to the Christophs, Mr. and Mrs. Christoph, thank you for shaping young minds. We appreciate that.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah shout out.

Josh Clark: And way to go Jack you're a cool dude. If you have a shout out you want us to give Chuck gets in on those pretty frequently.

Chuck Bryant: Sometimes.

Josh Clark: You can Tweet to us at syskpodcast, you can join us on Send us an email to And go to our website,

Female Speaker: For more on this and thousands of other topics visit

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Duration: 27 minutes