How Bigfoot Works

How Bigfoot Works

For centuries North American tribes have told stories of a hairy wild giant in the wilderness, and once Europeans arrived they claimed to see it, too. Chuck and Josh examine the claims of believers and the rebuttals of skeptics in this evenhanded episode.

Recording: Brought to you by the 2012 Toyota Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from

Josh Clark: Chuck -

Chuck Bryant: Chuck -

Josh Clark: Before we get started, let's plug our Brooklyn thing.

Chuck Bryant: Our live event guys, we are throwing a premier party for the TV show/ stuff you should know variety show at the Bell House in lovely Gowanus Brooklyn New York, 149 7th Street. This is January 8 and this has tickets. We're covering our cost on this one. And tickets are $10.00, you can go to the Bell or just Google that junk.

Josh Clark: Yea

Chuck Bryant: And go to the Bell House, find us on the calendar January 8, show starts at 7:30 - I'm sorry, doors at 7:30, show at 8:00.

Josh Clark: Yeah, yea

Chuck Bryant: And we've got special guest like comedians and music.

Josh Clark: John Hodgman's going to be there.

Chuck Bryant: Other comedians doing their standup.

Josh Clark: Lucy Wainwright Roche is going to play.

Chuck Bryant: Singing with her pretty dang voice.

Josh Clark: Right, so we're going to have a nice little blow out.

Chuck Bryant: Agreed.

Josh Clark: At the Bell House, come celebrate with us, it will be a fun festive occasion.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, we love the Bell House and we love our - our fans up there. And I'm sorry guys if we haven't come to your town yet. We would love too, trust us. And maybe we will.

Josh Clark: Yeah

Chuck Bryant: So there.

Josh Clark: Okay, so now onto the show. Hey and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh Clark with me as always is Charles W - Chuck Bryant and that makes The Stuff You Should Know the Podcast. Right, is that a wookie?

Chuck Bryant: That is me messing with Sasquatch.

Josh Clark: It sounded more like Frankenstein from Saturday Night Live.

Chuck Bryant: I remember that, I love that Frankenstein.


Josh Clark: [Inaudible]

Chuck Bryant: Tonto and -

Josh Clark: Tarzan.

Chuck Bryant: Tarzan classic skit. Have you seen the commercials messing with Sasquatch?

Josh Clark: Yeah, Jack Links.

Chuck Bryant: It's pretty funny.

Josh Clark: Yeah, all of them are.

Chuck Bryant: It's one of my favorite spots actually.


Josh Clark: Well it contradicts eyewitness reports that paint Bigfoot as kind of a benign shy creature.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Now as far as Jack Links is concerned, he goes agro when you - when you mess with him I guess is what it is.

Chuck Bryant: That's right.

Josh Clark: So I - I have an actual intro for this one.

Chuck Bryant: All right, let's hear it.

Josh Clark: We're talking Bigfoot, and very recently, there was some enormous, huge news. And - we should probably preface this one. Like if you are a skeptic, don't worry, we're going to give your side to this too. But we have found over the years that it's very respectful to give voice to both sides.

Chuck Bryant: We try too.

Josh Clark: Yeah, and we're not insulting you by speaking the other person's side.

Chuck Bryant: No.

Josh Clark: We'll express your side as well and when we do that, we're not insulting the other side.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, and at the end of the day, this is about Bigfoot, so let's not get so worked up.

Josh Clark: Yeah, calm down. You know.

Chuck Bryant: It's all just fun.

Josh Clark: There is a - a - a self professed veterinarian with 27 years experience including forensics named Doctor Melba Ketchum. Melba S. Ketchum and she supposedly - she claims got her hands on some samples of Bigfoot hair. And has been testing it at - running genetic tests on it. And recently announced and wrote a paper that's under peer review as it stands right now. That she - she managed to isolate three separate nuclear DNA.

Chuck Bryant: Okay.

Josh Clark: That - that came from three separate groups. So one is the nuclear DNA, and remember so you have nuclear DNA is the mixture of the mother's and the father's DNA. Mitochondria DNA is strictly from the mother. So the researcher found the - the nuclear DNA came from a human, Bigfoot - which is a hybrid of the human and this third species a non-human species. Doesn't know what it is yet, but supposedly that's what this hair sample showed.

Chuck Bryant: Really, then - and this is just now right?

Josh Clark: Yeah I believe they made this announcement in late November or early December, which is now.

Chuck Bryant: Under peer review?

Josh Clark: It is under peer review, that doesn't mean that it's going to pass peer review, but -

Chuck Bryant: Sure

Josh Clark: But she submitted the paper for peer review. Now she said that the - the mitochondria DNA in the sample was human, which means that this third thing - Bigfoot, is the product of a female woman and a - this non-human species, this mystery species reproducing and forming Bigfoot. And she says that she isolated it to about 15,000 years ago.

Chuck Bryant: Wow!

Josh Clark: Now, anybody - anybody who's followed Dr. Ketchum's career, can poke holes all in this. There was apparently, I read, an early draft of the paper that she said that this third species was an angel and - people, skeptics love beating up on people like this. But my hat is off to her for - for first of all undergoing this - using the scientific method to root out the unexplained. That's extremely Freudian in nature. And I love that stuff.

And then secondly, to put it up for peer review and to face that - that kind of criticism. The - one of the big problems is she - she isn't saying where this sample - how she knows this is a sample of Bigfoot's DNA.

Chuck Bryant: She didn't say where she got it?

Josh Clark: Not - not that I could find. And I actually saw in one article that she's not saying where it - where it came from. So there's a lot of holes in it, but if you want a big current Bigfoot news, that's about as big as it gets.

Chuck Bryant: That's right, not quite as current as our - our own law officer here in Georgia. Was that last year or the year before?

Josh Clark: The one up in North Georgia?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, man.

Josh Clark: With the - with his freezer?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah that was -

Josh Clark: I didn't follow that very closely.

Chuck Bryant: I'm going to go a head and say that I really want to believe in Bigfoot - or not want to believe, I want to - I want there to be a Bigfoot. I don't think there is.

Josh Clark: That means you want to believe in Bigfoot.

Chuck Bryant: But I still want to - I want to believe it's out there, because it's just - it would be so cool. And whenever - whenever - when I - when I saw that story, the sheriff in a - I think it was a sheriff or a deputy in North Georgia. It was a hoax of course, but he said he had a body in a freezer and they showed pictures of this - what - you know what -


Josh Clark: It was a gorilla suit right?

Chuck Bryant: Well, that's what it ended up being. And it had guts - it had animal entrails. But it looked like - initially like oh, man, that looks like a dead Bigfoot.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: But then you look closer and it's like a suit that you can get online and -

Josh Clark: I wish I had that kind of time to do stuff like that.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, apparently -


Josh Clark: To perpetrate a hoax.

Chuck Bryant: Apparently, they were trying to drum up potential business for leading Bigfoot tours in North Georgia.

Josh Clark: That's a sound way to do it.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, until you get found out and then ultimately, either retire or get fired.


Josh Clark: No, not necessarily.

Chuck Bryant: As a law enforcement officer.


Josh Clark: It could still work.

Chuck Bryant: Yes, he was.

Josh Clark: Oh, whoa! Okay, he lost his day job is what you're saying?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, yeah, you can't do stuff like that if you're a cop.

Josh Clark: You can't pull a hoax?

Chuck Bryant: No, you can't pull a hoax - hoax and try to snow people for money. It's not - that's not legal.

Josh Clark: I don't know that it is illegal.

Chuck Bryant: To a - to snow people for money, to promise them something that's not true and charge for it?

Josh Clark: Do you - this guy says that he -


Chuck Bryant: I think you call it fraud.

Josh Clark: Now, it's a hoax. There's a big difference between fraud and a hoax.

Chuck Bryant: If he - if he had the business it would be fraud.


Josh Clark: One could sue - no, that would be like if he promised that you were going to see Bigfoot. Not a Bigfoot tour, but he said, you're going to see Bigfoot on this tour and you didn't then you could get him for fraud.


Chuck Bryant: I disagree. I think you would still be fraud if he founded that business and advertised it on a false premise, which is I found this thing look at it?

Josh Clark: Yeah, I see your point.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. He's a jerk. That's what I say.

Josh Clark: Well, let's talk about Bigfoot, this guy up in North Georgia's pretty far from the only person who pulled a - a declared Bigfoot hoax. What keeps this thing going is that there's some stuff out there that's considered this body of evidence of Bigfoot's existence that hasn't been definitively debunked. And -

Chuck Bryant: Or proven.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: One of the other things that I think people who are believers in Bigfoot, like the ones that are out there like looking for Bigfoot. And believe in Bigfoot, one of the things that keeps them going also is this correlation between Bigfoot sightings among people of European decent and Bigfoot legends of Native American tribes long before the Europeans ever got here.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And if you - if you look at the names of - that these different tribes have and take a step back, you're like wow, these tribes were all over the place. Some are in the Pacific North West, some are in Florida, some were in the - the North Eastern United States and Eastern Canada.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And all of them have this weird tall giant hairy man legend that they have a name for.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Even though they're geographically scattered all over the place. And it's possible that they - that these - all of these different legends share a single common ancestor that - that's further back maybe located on the steps of Eurasia.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: But it's also kind of noteworthy that they all have different legends for it.

Chuck Bryant: Sure. The Himalayas even - the yeti.

Josh Clark: Yeah

Chuck Bryant: The abominable snowman in Asia very popular. Apparently, you hear that one more than you see it.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Which I didn't know. But we should call this thing Sasquatch because that is the most common name they use now a days. And even though some of the names from Native American tribes windago, windago -

Josh Clark: That's great.

Chuck Bryant: Oh mah - rugaru and boqs is some of the names that it is gone by in Native American lore. Sasquatch comes from - I have no idea how to pronounce that.

Josh Clark: It looks like Seeahtkch any - that - that word and another word from that area around British Columbia were similar enough in the 1920s white schoolteacher named JW Burns coined the term Sasquatch.

Chuck Bryant: Sure and it stuck.

Josh Clark: It basically - that's the umbrella term for any Bigfoot like man.

Chuck Bryant: Right. So we should - even though the sightings have varied in their description over the years, there are a few hallmarks that pop-up. One is that this is a tall beast, between seven and fifteen feet. Which is - that's huge -

Josh Clark: Fifteen feet is enormous.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I haven't - most of the ones that I've heard of are between seven and eight feet. But apparently -


Josh Clark: Have you seen troll hunter?

Chuck Bryant: I - I saw that recently actually.

Josh Clark: That first troll that - that they watched the guy zap and turn into stone, that thing was about 15 feet tall. That's huge.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, that was a pretty good movie.

Josh Clark: I'd buy 10 feet. No way 15 feet.

Chuck Bryant: No way.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Did you like that movie?

Josh Clark: Oh, Troll Hunter was excellent.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I kind of got - it kind of wore on me toward the end, I thought it was a little long. But it was pretty cool.

Josh Clark: Yeah, the imagination that it used.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Was just beautiful.

Chuck Bryant: Totally, agreed. Get Troll Hunter people. It walks on two legs.

Josh Clark: That's a big one.

Chuck Bryant: What's that bipedal? Is that what they say?

Josh Clark: Um-hum.

Chuck Bryant: It's upright and has a loping gate. You've seen that Elf right. The movie Elf?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: The - the one shot where they mimic the - the famous 16 millimeter film, where it says Will Ferrell in Central Park and they like have that from frame 352 of the 16 millimeter film? It's pretty funny?

Josh Clark: That - so Will Ferrell's doing Sasquatch?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, it's says like you know this strange elf was seen wandering through Central Park and they - they mimic that exact shot.

Josh Clark: Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

Chuck Bryant: But it's Will Ferrell.

Josh Clark: Sure, yeah.

Chuck Bryant: It was very good.

Josh Clark: Yeah -


Chuck Bryant: And then long reddish fur.

Josh Clark: That's a big one.

Chuck Bryant: Reddish brown -

Josh Clark: That's and that's really interesting that it's - that Sasquatch is typically described as having long reddish brown fur.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: That's a really specific thing for everybody to report. And again, it's possible that like people have heard other reports and said, you know that's what they're expecting to see.

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

Josh Clark: Or that's what they're reporting because that's what Sasquatch has. But it's still - it's significant. You said that the Yeti was more heard than seen.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Bigfoot's usually more seen than heard, but when Bigfoot is heard, it - the - he makes gurgling noises, howling noises, noises that sound totally alien to - to the people reporting it.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I've heard weird noises in the woods camping all my life. And I've never thought, oh that's a Bigfoot. I just think that's just something - some animal making a strange sound that I've never heard.

Josh Clark: Right, because you live in the city.

Chuck Bryant: That's right. Supposedly, this Sasquatch has also sort of a man like face and reports from either being really really really smelly to not smelling at all.

Josh Clark: Oh, yeah, that's not in this article. I forgot about how smelly Bigfoot's supposed to be.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, supposedly.

Josh Clark: I've heard that many times. There are also supposedly very wary of people, but also at the same time intensely curious about us. And a lot of people who have made eyewitness reports say that they weren't scared, which is weird.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, most people say though like I didn't feel threatened.

Josh Clark: Right, and that kind of jives with most Native American's legends about Bigfoot that it was - it's a benign creature and often it's - it has intellect and it's given spiritual powers in Native American lore. And so it wasn't something to be afraid of.

Chuck Bryant: Right, Sasquatch is your friend.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: They usually are by themselves, but there have been reports of several of these Sasquatches hanging out together and chatting.

Josh Clark: Yeah, but for the most part, they're usually alone, right?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: So you put all this together and you've got like a pretty good common - it's like the AKC breed for Sasquatch. These are its characteristics.

Chuck Bryant: I love it.

Josh Clark: Okay, if you take this at face value, which you should -

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

Josh Clark: If you're a skeptic, you should always look at things at face value, not just immediately dismiss it or pooh-pooh it.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Try to get to the bottom of it. And that's what we're about to do now. The first question is, could a creature that matches this description possibly exist?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, and it's important when considering this to point out that we have never despite all the sightings and little still shots and film clips, and audio clips, there's never been any conclusive evidence. They've never found bones.

Josh Clark: That's huge.

Chuck Bryant: Or anything like that. A lot of footprints and stuff like that.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: So moving forward could this exist? Perhaps in the gigantic phthisis -

Josh Clark: Right because that's a creature that - that actually did exist at some point. And it says here in the article that the - the gigantic phthisis - phthisis which is the largest primate in the fossil record.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Lives between one and nine million years ago. Actually, I saw an article that had updated that to about 100,000 years ago, which meant that humans and gigantic phthisis lived side by side.

Chuck Bryant: Have you seen this thing?

Josh Clark: I have.

Chuck Bryant: It looks like a Bigfoot. You know?

Josh Clark: Yeah and the -

Chuck Bryant: Like oh wow! I guess if someone saw that in the woods, I would think it was Sasquatch.

Josh Clark: Right. It lived in South East Asia or - and Central Asia. And it's a relative of the orangutan.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, big time.

Josh Clark: So -

Chuck Bryant: It looks a lot like one.

Josh Clark: Yeah, this is all extremely interesting stuff in case you didn't know because orangutans for starters have reddish hair - reddish orange hair.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: So that's one connection to the gigantic phthisis.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, they've got the long arms like that.

Josh Clark: Yeah, they walked up right about ten feet tall, usually about 1200 pounds. And since orangutans are the closest modern relatives of gigantic phthisis, it - it makes sense to kind of look at them. Look at their behavior. Does it match Bigfoot stuff?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, they have teeth similar to humans so that could account a little bit for the man-like look that people often talk about. Make - occasionally will make a loud howling calls.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: That sound odd to other orangutans.

Josh Clark: Another thing that kind of separates them too, aside from being Asian where as most primates are African, is that they tend to live solitary lives.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: So they don't aggregate in groups. They live by themselves mostly.

Chuck Bryant: Okay, so chalk one up for the Bigfoot enthusiast.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Again.

Josh Clark: They're like okay, well that's it. It's gigantic phthisis.

Chuck Bryant: They live a long time and because they are widely dispersed, they may not even see other orangutans for many long stretches.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: So of course, they may not see a human either.

Josh Clark: Exactly.

Chuck Bryant: You know?

Josh Clark: And if they're intellectual or if they have intellect, as people who believe in Bigfoot like to point out, they would be able to successfully hide from humans probably.

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

Josh Clark: Especially if their habitat was the woods and the mountains.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And so you put all that together, that they have a long life span, meaning there's not a lot of them dying frequently, they live - it - they're spread out population wise.

Chuck Bryant: Yep.

Josh Clark: And they tend to live in remote geographic regions. That - if you add all that up, it's a pretty good reason why you wouldn't have found any bones.

Chuck Bryant: Yes, because bones can decay in the wild like that between five and ten years. And the author of This - was this the grabster?

Josh Clark: This is Tom Harris.

Chuck Bryant: Tom Harris.

Josh Clark: He's a good one too.

Chuck Bryant: He is good. He points out that - that people have never gone on Bigfoot bone hunting expeditions so like people aren't looking for these things, so they may not have found them.

Josh Clark: Well, yeah, there is a guy actually, who's looking for Bigfoot. He's an Idaho State Anthropology professor. And he has - he's crowd sourcing a blimp to hunt for Bigfoot with thermal imaging cameras and stuff like that. He needs $300,000.00 and if you're interested in it, you can check - you can check out the -


Chuck Bryant: Kick starts it?

Josh Clark: I thought it was, but he's got his own website called the Falcon Project. And that's what he's trying to do with it. So there is at least one person trying to do a rigorous scientific hunt for Bigfoot. But -

Chuck Bryant: I mean, there's all kinds of groups looking.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, there's even a show on Animal Planet, one of our Discovery Channel stations - one of our - I would call it a sister station, but -

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: We're not a station, one of our colleagues. And it's - what's it called? Finding Bigfoot?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: And these people are out there hunting Bigfoot. And I've even watched bits of it, because I just think it's cool and interesting. And it's kind of a fun little show. So I recommend it. And we're - and we weren't even asked to plug that - I'm just plugging it.

Josh Clark: Good going.

Chuck Bryant: You know.

Josh Clark: Do you have a possible link between the orangutan right? And Bigfoot and that link might be gigantic phthisis.

Chuck Bryant: Right.

Josh Clark: Question is still remaining, how did gigantic phthisis get here?

Chuck Bryant: Well, we walked over the - was it the land bridge?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: The Bering Land Bridge?

Josh Clark: Yes.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, just like we did.

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: Well, not you and me, but you know.

Josh Clark: Well, that's one theory. But the - the big problem here Chuck is the absence of proof doesn't prove anything. The fact that we haven't found bones even though you can explain it, we still haven't found any bones. It doesn't mean that something exists. And that's a - that's a big problem in this debate. You can also point to though very happily the coelacanth. Right?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: The coelacanth was thought to have gone extinct 65 million years ago. It's a - it's a fish thought to have gone extinct in the late crustaceous period and then they found it swimming off the coast of Africa in 1938. So you can point to that and say, it's entirely possible that gigantic phthisis survived somehow and we just didn't know.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, and scientist are - they'll point out that there are all kinds of creatures that are still undiscovered, but most of them are sea creatures.

Josh Clark: And that makes sense too, because we don't spend very much time under the sea.

Chuck Bryant: No, we don't.

Josh Clark: Whereas, we spend a decent amount of time in the woods. Okay, so if you're a skeptic, everything we just said, probably made the hair on the back of your neck bristle in irritation. And here's why. Because like we said, the absence of proof doesn't prove anything.

Chuck Bryant: True.

Josh Clark: And it's entirely possible that all of this evidence, this body of evidence, is just basically a bunch of independent hoaxers fooling a bunch of people over time.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, or innocent mistaken identity. They are not all hoaxers. Some people have perhaps gotten confused about things.

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: And said, boy that mangy bear doesn't look right.

Josh Clark: That's standing up on its back legs too.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, or the recent photo that was that still image captured at night, and that's what they said it was, was a mangy bear. But that thing was kind of weird looking.

Josh Clark: I think I saw that one.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, it was like a night image shot and it was on - it was on four legs - on four - you know, I don't know if they were arms or what. And you know it looked odd, but they - they explained it away as a mangy bear.

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: But yeah, lots of hoaxes over the years.

Josh Clark: Yeah, and if you go into the woods and you're even the least bit familiar with any kind of Bigfoot lore and you see something that - that possibly fits it, you may be the victim of wishful thinking or being impressionable or what have you.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: That's a - that's a pretty good accusation a skeptic can level against somebody who reports a Bigfoot sighting.

Chuck Bryant: Sure and the first and easiest way to hoax someone - to pull a hoax on someone is the old fake footprint.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Not too hard to do. You make a fake foot, you wear it on your feet and you perhaps run along in the woods. Maybe loop, maybe leap to make the footsteps you know the gate correct.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: And then you make a plaster mold of it. The problem with these is there's been so many over the years that it's like clear that they're hoaxes because this one has two toes, this one has claws, this one has eight toes. And - you know they're - people aren't getting together on these and making them consistent.

Josh Clark: Yeah. Probably the most contentious bit of Bigfoot evidence was a - that 16 millimeter film you mentioned that was made in 1967 by a guy named Roger Patterson.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, the Patterson Gimlin film.

Josh Clark: And it's from Bluff Creek, California and basically it shows Bigfoot walking across - basically a clearing into the woods. And Bigfoot is aware that he is being watched and he turns and looks at the camera like you said Will Ferrell did in Elf. And I remember, years ago like watching this and - and when I was back in my Time Life Books phase.

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

Josh Clark: Like I'll believe anything just tell me.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh Clark: And they were saying that one of the reasons that this thing was so convincing that it was Bigfoot was that - and he looked over his shoulder, rather than looking with just his head - just turning his head, Bigfoot turns his whole shoulder and torso -

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Along with his head, which is something that a primate would likely do and non-human primate, I should say.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, or someone in an ape suit wearing shoulder pads.

Josh Clark: Possibly, that's another possibility too. They also point out that Bigfoot's walking with his knees bent in this, that's another sure sign of a primate. Whereas -

Chuck Bryant: I did that today, by the way.

Josh Clark: Did you, is it hard?

Chuck Bryant: Well, it's not the easiest thing, but what it makes you do is sort of lope along with a - kind of a funny gate.

Josh Clark: A loping gate?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Yeah, that's - that's something that Bigfoot enthusiast point to is that this thing was walking with knees bent. And I didn't realize this, until I read this in the article, but humans lock their knees with each step.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: We don't walk with our knees bent.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And then also, the lastly, that the - the creatures fur is clearly rippling. Like the skin beneath is rippling and like some costumes, some ape suit isn't going to do that on it's own.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: So put all this together, and if you're a Bigfoot believer, this is irrefutable evidence that there is such thing as Bigfoot. If you're a skeptic, you can shoot a hole in all of those can't you?

Chuck Bryant: Sure, since this film came out in 1967, it's been like the most reviewed and made fun of or backed piece of evidence ever for Bigfoot or Sasquatch and Roger Patterson it turns out was making - trying to make a movie about Bigfoot.

Josh Clark: Oh, yeah?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, so he wasn't just some guy out there that happened to have a camera. He was trying to put together a film since this has come out, there have been various people - one guy came out and said, you know what, I made the suit for him. He paid me $1,000.00 to make him the suit.

Josh Clark: Well, the guy who supposedly did make the suit has never admitted to it.

Chuck Bryant: Well, now there's a bunch of guys. That's not the same guy. There's Chambers and then there's this other dude. They aren't the same people. That's why it's kind of hinky, because multiple people have claimed to have made the suit. This one guy says that he was the guy in the suit and - but his suit story didn't match up with the guy who claimed he made the suit. Didn't match up with his suit story, but then people said, you know what Patterson could have altered that original suit to match the guy who said he was in the suit.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: Then there's Chambers who other people say made the suit, but he says he didn't make the suit.

Josh Clark: Well it's a long standing Hollywood rumor that actually John Landis the director of American Werewolf in London came out and -


Chuck Bryant: [Inaudible]

Josh Clark: Came out and - and - and said yeah, this is true when he was a young pup, he was working at one of the studios and he became friends with John Chambers. Who did the ape suits for planet of the apes, which came out right around that time, right?

Chuck Bryant: I think so.

Josh Clark: And he had heard that Chambers had done this and he befriended Chambers and said, yes, it's true, this is John Chambers, and then Chambers never - has never taken credit for it.

Chuck Bryant: Right.

Josh Clark: He's never come out and said, yeah, I did it, but if you ask the average special effects guy or makeup guy these days. If you show them that, they're like yes, this is - this is an ape suit, there's a water bag underneath that's making the skin ripple.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And I - I - like that's a guy. That's a man.

Chuck Bryant: Right. I watched it again today like five times.

Josh Clark: Yeah, me too. It's really neat.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, it's - its kind of fun.

Josh Clark: I mean, just the detail they went into like the - the - the crooked legs, the bent knees.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, the shaky cam - like it looked like someone scared and discovering something.

Josh Clark: Yeah, yeah it's perfect. If it's a fraud it is perfect, because think about it, the thing was shot in 1967, it's 2013 and people are still debating whether or not it's authentic.

Chuck Bryant: Oh, yeah and it's gone through lots of rigorous testing by people that study whether or not the film was tampered and they have determined that nothing was tampered post shooting like.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: If it was anything, it was a dude in an ape suit and they really went out there in the woods and shot it.

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: But like I said, this is all just kind of fun to me. People get so worked up over this. I don't get it.

Josh Clark: No. Who knows.

Chuck Bryant: You know.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: What's the harm unless someone's like defrauding people out of money.

Josh Clark: Right.

Chuck Bryant: You know.

Josh Clark: There are people who dedicate their careers to this. There's a woman named Kathy Moskowitz Strain and she is a forest archeologist for the US Forestry Service who basically became an anthropologist and an archeologist so that she could hunt for Bigfoot.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: And she's very respected even among skeptics who counter all of her arguments. But she is very much searching for Bigfoot and has been for many years.

Chuck Bryant: And she believes or just wants to get to the bottom of it?

Josh Clark: She believes that there's -

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: A Bigfoot - that there's another species out there - some primate species that is - that - what we call Sasquatch or Bigfoot.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, the arguments against like - to me if - you can't say something like well, somebody would have definitely seen it like by now and proven it. Like you just can't say that like the Pacific Northwest is so vast that an animal could probably hide if there was only a few of them left - from people.

Josh Clark: Sure

Chuck Bryant: You know.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: But on the other hand, you also like can't say, it exist because of this - these hoaxes and these sounds and like you need some sort of scientific evidence.

Josh Clark: I agree.

Chuck Bryant: Bones - bones would help.

Josh Clark: You do need that, unless you're just enjoying thinking about it.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Another thing that you can enjoy is kind of related is watching the Mystery Science Theater 3,000 of the Legend of Boggy Creek II.

Chuck Bryant: I haven't seen that one.

Josh Clark: It's arguably the best episode they ever recorded.

Chuck Bryant: Oh, wow!

Josh Clark: Oh my god, it's hilarious.

Chuck Bryant: Strong statement.

Josh Clark: But it's related. It's based on a Bigfoot like creature.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Well Tom points out too, that the reason people want to believe in stuff like this is the same reason some people want to believe in aliens - that - like the sense of adventure is seemingly lost these days. There's nothing new to discover and god if we could just discover a Bigfoot that would be so huge and so monumental. And I get that. That's probably why I want to believe, you know.

Josh Clark: Yeah, yeah.

Chuck Bryant: It would rock the world of science.

Josh Clark: Oh, it totally would. But then we'd put it in the zoo.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, poke it with electricity.

Josh Clark: We humans.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: All right, well let's see if you want to learn more about Bigfoot, you can type that word into the search bar at howstuffworks. There's a - an adorable picture of a baby orangutan in this article. So you want to check that out. That's B-I-G-F-O-O-T and it will bring that up and since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

Chuck Bryant: Josh, before we do listener mail, we should quickly plug our TV show.

Josh Clark: Yes, Stuff You Should Know, our television show. We call it that because it's based on our lives as podcasters - Stuff You Should Know podcasters. I play Josh, you play Chuck.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, we were going to change that around. I was going to play you, but it just didn't work out.

Josh Clark: We tried.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Yeah. But this is a show about our lives and here in the office and it's fun. Good stuff.

Chuck Bryant: Our fictional lives.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: We should point that out. We're not giving away our real lives. But we recreated our office. We hired actors. And - but it's still just you and me doing our thing among them.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: And it's on Saturday night, January 19 it premiers.

Josh Clark: 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.

Chuck Bryant: That's right, two episodes back to back after Idiot Abroad series three premier.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: And if you don't have TV, you can buy these on iTunes the day after the show comes out.

Josh Clark: Um-hum.

Chuck Bryant: You can buy each episode one at a time.

Josh Clark: That's right. And if you are used to Josh and Chuck short form video content, if you're not, that will still always be around as well. You can go to Science revision three - the number And always to find some good Josh and Chuck video content as well.

Chuck Bryant: That's right.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: And hey, the podcast isn't going anywhere by the way. People ask us that. We're still doing the podcast.

Josh Clark: Yeah we are.

Chuck Bryant: I don't care if this thing is a hugest hit ever; we're still going to do the podcast.

Josh Clark: For sure.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: Yeah, thanks for saying that Chuck.

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

Josh Clark: Okay, so stuff you should know the television show, January 19, that's Saturday, 10:00PM Eastern Standard Time after the series three, season three premier of Idiot Abroad starting at 9:00. We'll see you then.

Chuck Bryant: All right, listener mail time.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: I'm going to call this - I don't even remember what this was. Oh, Meth showers. Josh, Chuck and Jerry AKA Ltrucktran, my name is Jimmie Griffith from Lenoir South Carolina - North Carolina or Lenoir, I'm not sure how you pronounce that. I'm originally born in Brazil. I'm a relatively young listener and after listening to how meth works, reminded me of a story from my college days. I used to know these identical twin brothers that went to Appalachian State with me. You know what goes on at that school.

Josh Clark: Yeah, they beat Michigan.

Chuck Bryant: What a bunch of hippies, a bunch of party kids.

Josh Clark: Sure.

Chuck Bryant: I had friends that went there. At one time, one of them was having unexplained hallucinations - see what I mean? And other weird psychological issues. The twin with hallucinations feared that he might have psychophrenia, but that did not make sense since his identical twin did not share the symptoms.

As I understand, if one had the disorder, the other would also have it since they are identical. I'm not sure if that's true.

Josh Clark: It's probably like a percentage, but I don't think it's automatic.

Chuck Bryant: After dealing with this issue for a little while, the twin with hallucinations decided to see a doctor and after running a few - a few blood tests, tested positive for meth. This made no sense, since he had never used meth. After a few questions about the daily routine, they found out that most of what they did was similar, except one of the twins preferred to take baths - the one suffering hallucinations and the other preferred showers. This lead to further investigation of the rental house they lived in and they found out that there was a high concentration of meth on the bathtub - on the porcelain of the bath tub, which indicated whoever lived their previously made meth in the bathtub.

As you would expect, they shut down the house, the twins moved out, a cleaning crew with HAZMAT suits moved in. The twin with the issues ceased to have hallucinations involuntarily, he says. Don't know why he felt the need to point that out. And he came back to his old self. I just wanted to share that. Hope you're having a great week. Someday I hope to visit the studio in Atlanta and meet Jerry.

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: And that -

Josh Clark: He's right here.

Chuck Bryant: Is Jimmy Griffith from North Carolina - originally from Brazil.

Josh Clark: Dude, thanks a - thanks Jimmy, we hope you're having a good week too and we're glad your friend turned out okay.

Chuck Bryant: Jeez, can you imagine to be tested for meth. It's like Elaine testing positive for -

Josh Clark: A poppy seed bagel.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, opium.

Josh Clark: Yeah. Or a poppy seed muffin -

Chuck Bryant: Or heroin?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Good stuff.

Josh Clark: That was great episode -


Chuck Bryant: Jerry just said opium.

Josh Clark: Yeah, that's a good one man.

Chuck Bryant: What that Seinfield?

Josh Clark: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Josh Clark: I have one, if you are a skeptic and a believer in Bigfoot; we want to hear from you. You can Tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on And you can send us a good old fashion email to

Recording: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit Brought to you by the 2012 Toyota Camry, it's ready are you?

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Duration: 36 minutes